Ultras-Tifo Forum

Graff update 2023

Strange crossroads moment for English scene - actually have fanbases arguing whose printed banner was the best without having a hint of mentality or understanding of the movement they're short-selling

almost all clubs banging out Euro tunes en masse now and 'tifo' is pretty common, just no mentality or grounding behind it from the vast majority

need more proper groups with protest edge and mentality...not the middle class mail order brigade

South LDN wrote: ↑

May 11, 2023

Strange crossroads moment for English scene - actually have fanbases arguing whose printed banner was the best without having a hint of mentality or understanding of the movement they're short-selling

almost all clubs banging out Euro tunes en masse now and 'tifo' is pretty common, just no mentality or grounding behind it from the vast majority

need more proper groups with protest edge and mentality...not the middle class mail order brigade

The scenes dead in england.

Anyone see the scenes for the celtic womens game, we can only dream of having that passion in England, and they might make that whole end the 'celtic end'.  celtic park will rival anywhere in the world if that gets the go ahead.

Thats the difference between clubs in scotland and england.

Fans in scotland letting off flares etc in england you would be banned for life, sections closed down and that would be the end.  What happens in scotland?...they think about giving those fans a bigger section.

Its apples and oranges a totally different attitude.

Thats why england culture has died whilst in the rotw its growing.

Olympiakos For Life wrote: ↑

May 11, 2023

Disgusting. For such a big club too, there is no excuse for printing banners. Just get paint and blank banners, have fun with some fellow ultras, learn and it will be worth it. 

There arent any at those clubs in england.  Just plastic fans going along with whatever clubs tell them to do.  They hand out flags called 'loyalty flags' that they have to give back.  Printed banners made by the club...its just the way it is in england.  There is no ultra type mentality it doesnt mean as much to english fans.

South LDN wrote: ↑

May 11, 2023

Strange crossroads moment for English scene - actually have fanbases arguing whose printed banner was the best without having a hint of mentality or understanding of the movement they're short-selling

almost all clubs banging out Euro tunes en masse now and 'tifo' is pretty common, just no mentality or grounding behind it from the vast majority

need more proper groups with protest edge and mentality...not the middle class mail order brigade

Parts of your post are right about copying the European scene. For me the Scots have got the right balance between Europe-style chants and displays and keeping some of the old songbooks, even if I gather Union Bears are growing a bit unpopular with some old guard.  I think every English club will have a version of Allez Allez Allez soon (tbf most of Europe does now, only quality scenes like Poland, Hungary, Sweden, parts of Germany and the Swiss weirdly enough, actually have some originality in their chants), and there's definitely a need to not cosplay.

at the same time I can't help but feel its hairsplitting to start labelling one sections as "middle class mail orderers" and making the whole thing about "The Movement" (by which you mean the famous euro ultra codebook?) while complaining about copying Euro tunes. In the end these things sort themselves out organically with splits in the organised support and I'd rather have just any atmosphere than one set of blokes pissed at the other for "style" reasons. There's already splits between those who want more traditional atmosphere vs clearly copied europe style. Guess where Palace fit on that spectrum? Some Dutch scenes have shown that you can generate an "English-style" atmosphere without using a drum and the same 10 tunes you can hear at any stadium on the continent.

Casual_Neutral wrote: ↑

May 12, 2023

Parts of your post are right about copying the European scene. For me the Scots have got the right balance between Europe-style chants and displays and keeping some of the old songbooks, even if I gather Union Bears are growing a bit unpopular with some old guard.  I think every English club will have a version of Allez Allez Allez soon (tbf most of Europe does now, only quality scenes like Poland, Hungary, Sweden, parts of Germany and the Swiss weirdly enough, actually have some originality in their chants), and there's definitely a need to not cosplay.

at the same time I can't help but feel its hairsplitting to start labelling one sections as "middle class mail orderers" and making the whole thing about "The Movement" (by which you mean the famous euro ultra codebook?) while complaining about copying Euro tunes. In the end these things sort themselves out organically with splits in the organised support and I'd rather have just any atmosphere than one set of blokes pissed at the other for "style" reasons. There's already splits between those who want more traditional atmosphere vs clearly copied europe style. Guess where Palace fit on that spectrum? Some Dutch scenes have shown that you can generate an "English-style" atmosphere without using a drum and the same 10 tunes you can hear at any stadium on the continent.

You've misunderstood all that.

It is a crossroads moment in England. 20+ years ago you'd never think to have two English supports arguing over who has the best display.

Many English clubs now have Euro chants and displays - but for me, it has to develop into something more meaningful than what we're currently seeing. 

Not sure what 'codebook' you are referring to. But ultimately, I do want the movement to spread properly and it's not just the style you mention, it's to hopefully see proper groups emerge from the kind of Euro-lite, club-funded/mail order culture we're currently seeing. i.e A lot of English supports are adopting a European style in parts, but the mentality and organisation should follow to make the big changes needed to the game and support.

Top flight English football needs it more than ever right now where organised groups should be active in preserving their club's culture, maintaining the game's values, shaping ticket prices/safe standing/stadium rules/ pushing for organised sections etc). A few groups in England have done this well - hopefully others follow suit and build on the foundations that are clearly already there.

Nath94 wrote: ↑

May 02, 2023

Blue Action

Ipswich v Exeter - 29/04/23

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4 club photographers documenting everything with people's faces. Might as well log your details with the cops

Forest are particularly egregious with regards to their agency displays. Claim to take inspiration from "the yellow wall" and then at the same time say printing is better because the quality is better. A lot of them claim we hand make our stuff because we "can't afford" to print it which I think sums the whole thing up.

Was nice to be able to call them out earlier in the season and nice for our wider fanbase to get what we were on about as well. Forest oblivious as usual and dead certain they've got it sussed out and the rest of the footballing world have got it wrong.

The lads at Derby that paid Supporters' art £7k for that rubbish are just the latest flash in the pan there, I can remember at least 4 attempts there in the last decade none of which have gone anywhere.

In terms of Scotland - it’s clearly miles ahead but we still have the same issue with flares up here as you do in England - it’s illegal too. The main issue is too many individuals are letting them off and chucking them on the pitch rather than a group of people setting them off at once and creating a better spectacle. Too many supports down south are doing that and it’s making it look sh*te.

The chants issues is also so annoying, nobody is willing to start something new, instead will steal chants like “Allez,allez” or “putting on a show” it’s a massive riddy. The uk scene in general gets boring and saturated as no support is willing to try something new apart from Celtic, Huns, Palace and Motherwell.

The rest has a lot of catching up to do and a bit of research too.

Olympiakos For Life wrote: ↑

May 15, 2023

Ultra culture won't ever grow there. Seems to me like the same reason why ultra culture wont grow in the US. People generally have a disdain for pyro, they think it is a "sign of hooliganism". It's very late as well, for it to grow it needs to start immediatley. 

When you say 'there' I assume you mean England as its definately growing in Scotland.

As for the US they have loads of pyro but quite a lot is restricted to certain areas but still miles ahead of what we have in the UK.

I see it continuing to grow in scotland, i think they'll be token efforts to start groups in England but like arsenal the club will do its best to stop anything.  And the advantage the clubs have in England that they dont elsewhere is they know stopping ultra groups wont affect ticket sales, they can ban groups and know their tickets will be snapped up.

My experience of the US was the club gives the groups freedom because they know that there the sort of fans that will go to 'soccer' matches and not choose another sport, if they banned them they'd struggle to fill the grounds.